Today in The Ready Room,
we get a mission briefing from the U.S.S. Titan's
commanding officer, Todd Stashwick,
who plays Captain Liam Shaw.
We examine the transformative history of the Changelings,
and we learn about the science
behind the science fiction of Star Trek.
Warp your way out of a life-giving nebula,
and head straight to The Ready Room.
Hey nerds, I'm Wil Wheaton and this is The Ready Room.
Your official behind the scenes hub
for all things Star Trek Universe.
It is impossible to trust anyone
when there's a Changeling saboteur in your midst.
So, in order to reassure you that I am not a shapeshifter,
I am calling for a red alert!
This week's episode of Star Trek: Picard,
"No Win Scenario," is literally a wild ride
for the crew of the Titan.
If you haven't seen it yet,
don't let spoilers bring you down like a gravitational well.
Stream the episode and return to The Ready Room
to hear everything about it.
Okay, this week I am so excited to chat
with Todd Stashwick, who plays Captain Liam Shaw.
We'll be breaking down his character's tense relationships,
and what it's like serving
as the U.S.S. Titan's commanding officer.
In this week's episode,
we see the gravitational well in the heart of a nebula
that is the epitome of exploring strange new worlds
and seeking out new life forms.
Well, later on, the Science Advisor
to the Star Trek franchise, Dr. Erin MacDonald,
explains the ins and outs of a gravitational well,
as well as other science facts
behind the science fiction in this week's episode.
But first, the Changelings, also known as the Founders,
have been one of the Federation and Starfleet's
most devastating opponents
ever since they started the Dominion War
in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.
Now, the bad news for Starfleet,
which is good news for us fans,
is that they're back and more menacing than ever.
Here's a look at the sticky history
of the shape shifters we love to loathe.
Control room? Engage.
[Narrator] Throughout Star Trek's
long history with shapeshifters,
none are more dangerous than the Changelings,
also known as the Founders of the Dominion.
Major, the Changelings are the Dominion.
[Narrator] And in Star Trek: Picard Season 3
the Changelings have returned with designs
on conquering the galaxy.
Your Federation will crumble.
He's a Changeling.
[Narrator] In Star Trek: Deep Space Nine,
fans are first introduced to the Changelings by way of Odo,
Security Chief on the series' titular space station.
I've been called a Changeling on occasion.
[Narrator] With no memory of his past,
Odo longs to know more about his origins.
The exploration of you, what you are, where you came from.
It's never far from your mind, is it?
That part of it is true.
[Narrator] However, he soon finds answers
when his fellow Changelings invade the Alpha Quadrant.
Calling themselves the Founders,
they start what will be known as the Dominion War.
Changelings
have reached Earth.
[Narrator] Upon their first meeting,
the Founders revealed to Odo that the Changelings
evolved on a distant planet in the Gamma Quadrant
where they live in their liquid form in a large sea
called the Great Link.
The Great Link tells us that many years ago,
our people roamed the stars, searching out other races
so we could add to our knowledge of the galaxy.
But how could you be sure
that we'd find our way back here?
The urge to return home
was implanted in your genetic makeup.
[Narrator] As the Changelings explored the galaxy,
they were met with hatred and violence
at the hands of the solids.
No!
[Narrator] For self-preservation,
the Founders formed The Dominion to end their abuse,
no matter the cost.
We will emerge stronger and in a far better position
to take the Alpha Quadrant once and for all.
[Narrator] Devastated, Odo refuses to join
with the Changelings in their vengeful attacks
on the Alpha Quadrant.
Nevertheless, the Dominion sees great success in the war
through their use of shapeshifting spies
and the military prowess of the Jem'Hadar.
Thanks to their unique liquid anatomy,
Changelings do not die of natural causes,
but they are not immortal or immune
to other threats on their lives, either.
Determined to exploit their vulnerability
and thereby eradicate the Dominion threat,
Starfleet's Section 31 tortures several Changelings
to develop a lethal virus.
Odo is infected with the virus
and passes it on to the Founders through the Great Link.
Disgusted by Section 31's genocidal intentions,
Deep Space 9's Chief Medical Officer,
Dr. Julian Bashir, develops an antidote for the illness.
Odo agrees to cure his people of the virus
in exchange for the Founders' surrender, ending the war.
Fulfilling his promise, Odo returns to the Great Link,
curing his people and building a new peaceful dominion.
Though most of the Changelings remain in the Gamma Quadrant
as part of the Great Link,
there are some who have separated from the rest.
On Star Trek: Picard, they hide among the solids,
sowing chaos throughout the galaxy.
I was attacked.
His face, it moved.
There's a Changeling on board.
It's not every day that I get to talk
to the Captain of one of Starfleet's finest vessels.
But today is one of those days as I talk to Todd Stashwick.
Todd, thank you for being here in The Ready Room.
Thank you for having me.
Welcome back to Star Trek.
Yeah. Right?
Before we talk about Shaw,
everyone's favorite new Star Trek character,
let's talk a little bit about Talok.
Talok.
Talok?
Talok.
One of my delightful quirks
is I deliberately mispronounce Romulan names.
So that I can jump in and correct you.
A Romulan posing as a Vulcan on Enterprise.
That was I. Yeah.
[Wil] So, that was a minute ago.
I don't even know.
I don't wanna count 'cause it'll hurt my brain.
That was a while ago.
Talk to me about coming back to our fun Universe
as a very different character.
Anything, any contrast?
So this has been part of, like, Trek has been, you know,
part of my DNA since I was a boy.
And so just to be invited to that party
and to don the ears and the haircut
'cause I was a Vulcan for the first half of that experience,
and then they put on the bumpy forehead
and moved the hairline back and leaned into my villainy.
So, it was cool to be part of someone else's party.
As you do as a guest star,
you jump in for an episode or two,
and you don't wanna move the furniture around.
You just hit your mark and leave.
But still the pride of going yeah,
now I've made my mark in the Trek Universe.
That guy doesn't know he's gonna be a Captain someday.
He does not know this.
How does that guy react?
So, Terry Matalas, the Showrunner,
he comes to me and he says,
"I've created a role for you on Picard,"
and I just didn't believe that.
I feel like maybe you underplayed that moment
just a little bit.
If I could just billboard it, may I?
Terry Matalas called you and said,
"I have written a role for you in Star Trek: Picard."
Yeah. Yeah.
Do you drop the phone, do you fall down?
Well, it's one of those things-
And he tells you it's a Captain?
You know, as an actor, first thing you go,
well that's, I'm so flattered.
I can't wait to see who you get to play it.
Of course. Right.
It's never gonna be me. - We're so used to like,
welcome to big set up little payoff.
Yeah, of course.
But because of who he was
and his relationship to the show,
and he's a man of his word and he meant what he said.
And then he called one day
and then I was suddenly in wardrobe being fitted
for my Captain's uniform. And so I had to compartmentalize.
the, you know, the actor who's been in the business
for 30 years who's like, "I'm excited to play a part.
This is a juicy part."
The 10-year-old in me is going, "Oh my God.
This is so much fun."
That was me every day for five years.
Right?
You know, our nerd blood runs deep.
So deep.
The fact that we get the opportunity
to make the things that we like to consume,
this is a show I watch anyway regardless of me being on it.
And so it was never lost on me,
the experience was never lost on me
every time I walked onto my bridge,
every time I sat in my chair,
every time I said things like "Battle stations,"
like, it was never lost on me
the custodian that I must be
to carry the weight of the tradition,
and the joy that I'm feeling.
And at the same time, an actor who has to make choices
and fulfill a role.
You have to do the work.
[Todd] Do the work.
Right.
Did you have those moments of internal tension?
"I have to do the work.
Oh my God, I'm working on Star Trek.
I'm in a uniform, I'm on the bridge."
I had those moments all the time.
It's, you know, I will say I have had the good fortune
of working with Jonathan Frakes.
He's been my director on other projects.
And so between Frakes and Terry,
the pump was a little primed before I arrived.
Sure.
They were like, oh, there's this guy
coming to work with us.
You're gonna like him.
And I'm here to enjoy my life and enjoy my job.
And so I walked into a very warm room,
like I immediately walked in and I felt like home.
And having been a lifelong Trek fan,
knowing what the job requires, knowing the tone,
knowing what we're delivering,
I never felt overwhelmed, or overburdened, or afraid.
I wanna talk about the chair.
So, I noticed there's just a thing
that we nerds kind of recognize in each other.
It's unconscious, it just exists, right?
It's like stink lines, you know?
We just see them in other nerds, right?
So I'm watching Picard
and I see you come onto the bridge and I'm like,
"He's a Star Trek fan.
That actor gets this.
That actor knows what this means
because that actor is a fan of the show,
and that actor is in the audience."
I have also seen what it's like when someone is an actor,
a very good actor, an incredible actor
that doesn't respect the chair
the way a nerd respects the chair, right?
Yeah. I mean-
Just talk about the chair.
It's a thin line where you go,
"I am creating a new thing.
I'm not looking backwards,
but I have to create a new character in this universe."
So this character's relationship to the chair is his own
and whatever background he brings to that.
At the same time, we're custodians.
Yeah.
We're custodians of something that has come
long before me and will continue long after me.
And so my job is to hold that,
like you were saying, as a fan,
hold it up for the fans to show that I care about it.
And so my relationship to the physical chair
is like, well, Kirk sat like this,
and Picard sat like this, and what's my take?
How do I sit in this?
How does he hold command?
And the reality for me physically was,
"Oh, this character is a mechanic."
Like, he was an engineer and he's a grease monkey
as they referred to him, and so I really wanted
to get that kind of like, "All right,
we're looking at the engine.
We're figuring this out."
Like very hands-on. - He's a car guy.
And my dad, I was a blue collar guy from Chicago
so my dad fixed machines.
And so yeah, he's a car guy.
On our set, there were two kinds of people,
people who would sort of defer to, like, Patrick,
"May I sit in your chair?"
And people who were just like,
"I'm gonna take a picture in the chair," right?
I was always offended by the second type of person.
Did you have that moment where someone was like,
"May I sit in your chair?"
No, they disrespected my chair.
- Dude. F*** those guys. - There was always
somebody else sitting in my chair.
I'm so sorry.
I would never have done that. - It's not your fault.
It's not Your fault. - I would've respected
and loved your chair.
Like, there was, I mean, you want to have
the fun like when Patrick would be just chilling on the set.
I mean, there were a couple moments
where I would go, "Ahem,"
but it was
all out of absolute play. - Oh, man that's funny.
Yeah, for sure.
And there was a moment like,
"Oh, of course, of course."
But no, everybody was sitting in that chair.
One of the things that I find so incredibly refreshing
and incredibly interesting about Shaw
that makes him just like I cannot stop watching him,
we in the audience, we in the Star Trek Universe
revere Jean-Luc Picard and William Riker.
They are legendary.
They are spoken of the way you speak of a god.
Yep. Yep.
Shaw has no time at all
for that shit. - Gives zero.
Nope.
These dudes are messing up everything.
And like, "Listen, it's great that you did this stuff,
but I'm trying to run a ship here."
And it's not necessarily great sometimes.
I know.
I love that about him.
Every one of my Next Generation coworkers
that had has come here through the couch this season,
we've talked about how much we love that point of view
about our characters and our time
kind of carrying the baton.
I find that really interesting 'cause it's very real.
Which brings me to the Quint speech.
You must have heard about the Battle of Wolf 359.
Forty Federation starships up against one Borg cube.
I was just in engineering, just a grease monkey.
And the next second,
it's like, like space itself was burning.
One of the things that Terry had said to me
when he was describing who Shaw was going to be
and what his role was in Season 3,
and the reason he's named Shaw is after Robert Shaw,
'Cause Quint would've been a little too on the nose,
but at least it's informed by a man
who has been through some severe trauma,
and put himself back together
in a way that is deeply informed by that trauma.
And then suddenly it is brought in stark relief.
He can no longer put it behind him and in many ways,
this is an opportunity for catharsis.
Yeah.
And so interestingly enough,
I've often talked about, you know,
you talk about the hero's journey
and I'm gonna get a little like write-y here,
but you talk about the hero's journey and then there's
the belly of the beast.
Yes.
And this is what that episode is.
It's the belly and literally in the belly of a beast.
And often when characters are in the belly of the beast
is when they bear their truths.
Yes.
And so often in an organic environment.
Luke in the cave, you know, like you can go,
you can see this sort of historically
that we are in an organic environment.
That part feels like a cave.
Well, but even literally the ship itself
is in the belly of this celestial beast.
And so we can't go anywhere so we have to face ourselves
and we have to face our demons.
And so for Shaw, never in his life thought
he would ever have to look Jean-Luc Picard in the face.
Has to.
And it is the Quint moment of the Indianapolis
where they've had a few,
they're essentially in a bar in Jaws,
and that's this moment it is a lovely way for this character
to bear his soul.
And you see his pain and you suddenly go,
"Oh, he isn't just an asshole."
Right.
He's a man hurting.
- Yeah. - Yeah.
Did you know from from Episode 1
that this was part of his story?
Yeah.
Yeah, and you used that to build him.
Yeah, I did it.
I mean, he obviously makes different choices
than obviously Quint would.
Quint's far more...
I think Shaw is a bit risk averse
because of the events of Wolf 359.
Yeah.
He will do everything to keep people safe
and not put them in harm's way.
So, when he hears the story of these reckless rangers,
of these people who constantly
are putting their crew at risk in his mind,
he doesn't have reverence for them.
'Cause it is that very behavior
that put him in this situation in the first place.
That lack of reverence brought the entire series
kind of closer to reality for me
in a way that I had not experienced before.
Interesting.
There was something so very real about like,
look, y'all, there's another side of this guy.
There's another side of Picard
that like a lot of people have to deal with.
Like, remember Sisko's wife?
There's repercussions.
Like, there's fallout from this.
You guys go on your merry way,
but there are people in the wake
that are cleaning up after your messes
and it is almost a fan discussion.
Do you know what I mean?
It is. - Yeah. Totally.
And Shaw is that voice in a meta way when he says
he's like, "We're not going to be crashing the ship,
we're not going to be exchanging fire."
There's a moment at the end of that scene
that really affected me
when Picard kind of excuses himself in absolute shame.
I've known Patrick Stewart for 35 years,
and it is the very first time-
it is the only time I saw him look small.
He looks physically small and I just thought like,
that is incredible.
That felt to me like one of those,
"This is why we do it" speeches.
Are you aware of this likely landing
in one of the top 10 Star Trek monologues?
Have you thought about that?
Oh, that's all I think about, Wil.
- Oh good. - No.
No, of course not, of course not.
I mean, I knew when they handed you the script
and it's a two-page monologue like you go,
"Okay, I have to, I gotta do my work."
I have to do the work to honor
not only what this character's going through,
but the significance of this event
and how it is directly connected
to this beloved two-part episode back in the day.
And God bless Frakes, he just gave me
all the room on the day, and Ed, and Patrick,
and that was one of those lovely moments
where Patrick kinda comes up to you after the scene
and gives you a little chuck on the shoulder like.
Oh man, there's nothing like that.
Oh my, my.
Oh boy. Yeah.
I've had that.
So in terms of how the fans receive it,
I hope it moves people,
I hope they get insight into Shaw.
But yeah, it was a special thing.
And then the fact that, you know,
in the edit they left it intact.
So, they didn't clip a word.
Wow.
That's awesome.
[Todd] Yeah.
That's rare.
That's rare, people at home.
That just doesn't happen all the time.
Yeah, it was a humbling to be entrusted
with something as meaty as that was really humbling.
Shaw has to deal with another Borg on a ship,
an ex-Borg in Seven.
This is Captain William Riker.
Will, this is Seven of Nine.
Commander Annika Hansen, sir.
Captain Shaw prefers that I use Hansen, Admiral.
His experience at Wolf 359
affects his relationship with her?
Well, of course it does,
and I think he's often he's not wrong.
He's not wrong, and he chooses his First Officer.
So, I think he has to compartmentalize.
He recognizes her skill.
I think when he was younger,
I think prior to the events,
he was probably much more like her.
Roguish, and risky, and whatnot,
and so she gets to be the things on the bridge
that he won't let himself be,
and needs that other voice of a much more
impulsive, brash risk taker,
which is why I think he chose her as his First Officer.
But, won't call her Seven.
Yeah.
So that's how he compartmentalizes.
Like, he recognizes the qualities,
the leadership qualities and her instincts
as being necessary, but she is Annika Hansen to him.
When we were doing Next Generation,
one of the edicts from Gene Roddenberry
was that there just wasn't meant to be
conflict among Starfleet officers;
that we're kind of like all on the same team,
which philosophically is great,
but dramatically is not real fun to watch.
We eventually kind of had to mix that up
and bring it to Next Generation.
But Shaw's kind of there from the first moment.
Well, if, you know, if Riker and Picard
had been behaving like Starfleet officers,
maybe there wouldn't be conflict.
But they clearly weren't.
They weren't.
So, my conflict isn't with their rank or their position,
it's with their choices that betray their oath, the charter.
They're constantly breaking the Prime Directive.
Right, that's the thing
that I joke about all the time, right?
Like, we have the one rule you're not supposed to break
that every Captain breaks like multiple times a year.
But as far as conflict goes, the reality is at first,
he's super passive aggressive.
Like, when you meet him in the dinner scene,
it's not conflict.
We're having a fine, fine meal here.
So he's doing his best to not be conflicted,
and yet the passive aggression
just drips and drips and drips from his tone.
I really enjoyed that scene
when they come into his quarters,
and I feel like it just tells us everything.
Your reputation preceded you so far into the room
that I started early.
Ah.
Shaw eating that steak
is such gorgeous showing without telling.
And then when Picard hands me his Chateau Picard
and I'm like, ah.
That is terrific.
I'm much more of a Malbec man myself.
He just disses him so hard.
It's so just beautiful.
I love it.
That might have been actually the first scene that I shot.
Really?
And so it was a really lovely, lovely way
to set up the dynamic with this character.
And then also they gave me a meal, literally
and figuratively, of a scene to find my vibe
with the actors too.
Have you spent any time thinking about
how you're like kind of linked to Star Trek now, forever?
Yeah, I mean, and I had been with Talok,
but now this character is this is such a special season
and to be connected to it, you know,
they can't take that away from me.
Like, this is one of those as a nerd boy,
this is every once in a while you get a good one,
and they gave me a good one.
I feel so happy and just like satisfied
when one of us gets there.
Do you know what I mean?
It's like, somebody from the neighborhood made it.
- Yeah, right? - That's right.
Yeah, we did it. - You know, I came into this,
I came in, I was a Second City Chicago guy
and I thought I was gonna be doing SNL.
That was the goal.
And then I stumbled into a lot of villain roles.
While doing a half hour sitcoms but doing a lot of like,
you know, the Buffys, and the Angels,
and the Supernaturals and all that.
So, I stumbled into genre,
and so Star Trek: Enterprise was part of that process.
But this experience is not lost on me.
It's not lost on me.
Is there anything you wanna tease
about the rest of the season?
We're four episodes in,
we're like kind of nearing the end of the beginning.
Is there anything that you wanna talk about?
Are there any Shaw moments?
Is there anything that you as an actor thought was awesome
that you wanna tease with?
I hate spoilers.
Okay, that's an entirely acceptable answer.
You can stop
right there if you want to. - I hate because it's like,
the joy of storytelling is surprise, right?
You ain't seen the last of him.
Like, he gets to, you know, his...
Episode 4 was a great turning point for him,
and you see I get to paint with more colors.
I'll say that.
I'm very much looking forward to it.
Thanks.
Thanks for being here today.
Thanks for having me, Wil.
Star Trek has a long history of making sure
the science represented in the show
is as factual and real as possible.
Everything from gravitational wells,
to nebulas, like we see in this week's episode
of Star Trek: Picard, are at least theoretically real.
Star Trek's brilliant science advisor, Dr. Erin MacDonald,
who some of you may recognize
from the Season 1 finale of Star Trek: Prodigy
is back to explain how she helps the series' creators
separate the facts from the fiction in the final frontier.
Take a look.
[Crusher] This Nebula is a womb,
and we are swimming in its amniotic fluid.
Space babies?
One thing that's so cool about Star Trek
is it's had this like long legacy of science advisors.
You have writers coming up
with the craziest ideas that you don't think are possible,
and then these amazing experts in their fields
are able to kind of ground the ideas more in actual science.
How many doctors and scientists got into their fields
because they were inspired by Star Trek?
So, there is a responsibility
to get as much of that right as possible.
Not just am I in charge of making sure any science,
real science, dialogue is accurate,
but also maintaining the legacy of the Star Trek science.
This cannot work.
I have to understand what's come before
and how we can utilize that
when we're trying to talk technology and engineering
for the story.
Obtain and deliver the asset.
All else is expendable.
Unfortunately, the starship- faring Jack Crusher
couldn't escape the center of the gravity well.
In Episode 4 for Picard,
we wanted to have the ship stuck in the gravity well
and try to figure out like how they're gonna escape.
Being presented, kind of, with that story,
then it's just a matter of making sure
we explain everything correctly.
We're falling deeper and deeper
into the nebula's gravity well.
We're sinking.
The main thing that we wanna make sure we don't say
is that you're getting sucked into a gravity well.
I think a lot of people have this impression,
especially of black holes, that they go around
like Hoovering up like different parts of the galaxy.
But really it's just a steep point of gravity.
Like, we have gravity here on earth,
it's a gravity well that we are stuck in.
It keeps us here on the surface.
So we just have to be sure that we're saying like,
you're stuck in it versus being pulled into it.
Gravity wells have an escape velocity
that you have to be going a certain speed to get out of.
How would you do that?
How could you manipulate the ship's inner systems
to be able to create enough power
to be able to get out of it?
So all of those little nuances to the story
is kinda where I come in.
A big part of this too is the nebula.
Any type of cloud of stuff in space
can be considered a nebula.
So the idea that this nebula has a gravity well
really just comes from the idea that mass
creates a gravity well.
So, even though it's a cloud,
you don't think of it being heavy, but it's still stuff.
Kind of the big mystery in this case, right,
is that this nebula has a much higher
gravity well than expected.
We knew right away that this nebula
was not your traditional Mutara Nebula.
That there's something else going on,
there's something biological. And it's, sort of,
we knew we had this payoff planned.
It was sort of a womb, it was an amniotic fluid
that they were going through.
It was the birth of a space creature,
not unlike "Encounter At Farpoint."
Now we've encountered species before,
life forms that thrive in the vacuum of space.
We can only define life as what we know it to be,
which is what we see here on earth.
But that's not to say that there couldn't be
some other form of even sentient,
like, self-aware life out there
that's just made up of something totally different.
And there are whole fields of science
where they study things called extremophiles,
or what we would consider life,
but that lives in very weird, strange environments.
Deep in the ocean where there's a ton of pressure
and it's super dark, and from what we know about life,
nothing can exist.
And then we find stuff down there
so we're constantly pushing those boundaries
of how we define life. And it's really, you know,
who are we to say that that can't exist?
I like to "Yes and..." the storytelling process,
and especially when this is the type of stories
that we've seen before, right?
This isn't unheard of.
I think for me, working on Season 3
of Star Trek: Picard has just been an absolute honor
because you think about that legacy of science advisors
that really started with Star Trek: The Next Generation,
and so being able to kind of revisit that world
and be able to contribute to those specific characters
is really special.
The crew of the Titan may have escaped Vadic and the Shrike
at least for now, but don't you worry,
there's lots more high stakes adventure to come,
including in this exclusive clip from next week's episode.
Your enemy's aggression will always reveal their weakness.
You could have sacrificed a move to reveal mine.
I already know yours.
It's talk.
Impulsiveness, stubbornness, shortsightedness is yours.
Oh yeah.
Do that meditation thing.
You know I was going to win.
[Computer] Priority communications alert,
incoming encrypted message from Starfleet Intelligence.
Your handler?
Yes.
Finally.
It's been almost 24 hours since you contacted them.
Patience, Raffaela.
Patience my ass.
If that attack on Starfleet Recruiting
was just a distraction,
that means as we speak,
there's a bunch of terrorist goo freaks out there
planning their next attack.
Which is precisely why I requested access
to Daystrom Station.
We need to find out what else
the Changelings stole from that vault.
[Computer] Denied.
What?
Thank you for being with me here in The Ready Room
and sharing in my love for all things Star Trek Universe.
I cannot believe I get to do this.
And a very special thank you to Todd Stashwick
for the Titan-ick chat.
Titanic chat?
You get it.
Next week, Starfleet's coolest intelligence officers,
Michael Dorn, who plays Worf,
and Michelle Hurd who play Raffi Musiker,
will join me to share all the top secret information
about Star Trek: Picard
Season 3, Episode 5, "Imposters."
Until then, I'm Wil Wheaton.
Live long and prosper.